How to Get More Men to Try Therapy-It’s Life Changing!

Every man gets handed the same invisible rulebook at some point: don’t talk about your feelings, walk off the pain, say “I’m fine” when you’re anything but. Episode 252 is about what happens when men finally put that rulebook down — and why therapy might be the most underrated power move a man can make. 

Commander Drew and Dr. Paul break down what’s really going on behind the silence: anxiety, depression, stress, and trauma quietly stacking up in men of every background while they keep insisting they’ve got it handled. The warning signs don’t always look like a breakdown — they look like disappearing from friends, snapping over nothing, or being physically present but mentally checked out. 

The episode reframes what therapy actually is — not a couch and a tissue box, but a structured place to get honest, get tools, and stop white-knuckling it alone. Therapy doesn’t make someone the hero of your story. It just hands you a better playbook. 

Good News goes deep into the ocean — literally. Scientists discovered 1,121 new marine species in a single year, including a ghost shark older than the dinosaurs and a worm living inside what researchers call a glass castle. With 86% of life on Earth still unidentified, the message is clear: we are nowhere near done exploring. 

Jet Jolt puts the miracle of flight in perspective — roughly 80% of the world’s population has never been on an airplane. Not once. For those who fly regularly, it’s a reminder that what feels routine is actually extraordinary. 

The Frequent Flow-Line brings a letter from Brian in Manchester, England, who watches the show every week with his children and asks how Drew and Paul decided to join the Navy and become airline pilots. Their answers go well beyond career choices — they’re about purpose, service, and what it means to keep looking up. 

The Wingmen PSA covers EFIL Fact #6: anger is really fear. Stress is the number one killer — and the prescription is simple. Sit down, shut up, and do nothing for 24 hours. 

The Gouge with Ace takes on a question every young person needs to hear answered honestly: what’s the real gouge on success that nobody tells you? 

The Wingman Story closes the show with Charlie O. and Tyler — a classroom, a partner practice assignment, and one athlete who walks past the cool crowd to sit with the kid everyone else is waiting to see fail. It’s a story about guarding someone’s dignity — and discovering that’s its own kind of greatness. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Welcome to the Wingman Show, where we're floating like butterflies and stinging like bees. Rumble, you two badass jet pilots, Rumble. Welcome to the Wingman Show. My name is Commander Drew Brown, my wingman, my friend, the guy who always watches my 6 o'clock. It's my main man, Dr. Paul Thompson. How are you today, Brother Paul?

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Hello, Commander Drew. It's good to see you. I like your flavor flaved glasses. But before I comment on your background, there's something else our listeners need to know. And I'll start it off with a proper introduction here. People need to know that you are now a member of royalty. You are not Commander Drew, you are Lord Commander Drew.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

That is very correct. I have some friends from England who bestowed upon me through their however they got it, I am now Lord Commander Drew Brown, and Katrina is Lady Katrina Brown. Yes, that is true. So maybe I should start off saying, hi. This is Lord Commander Brown. It's crazy, but it's true. All right, well, let's start off with a quote. Thank you for that very much, Dr. Paul. I like being Lord Commander. Well, how about this quote? The only man who makes no mistakes is the man who never does anything. The only man who makes no mistakes is the man who does nothing. And that's by Theodore Roosevelt. I like that one, Paul.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Yeah, I think that's true. And uh some people do that to escape criticism, but you can be criticized for not doing anything either. So basically, you know, step out there, take a chance, don't be too foolish, but maybe a little foolish every now and then.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

That's right, because if you don't take the shot, you definitely won't make the score. You have to at least shoot the ball. All right, today's title is really important. How to get more men to try therapy. And let me tell you, it works. So I want to tell you right now, I abuse therapy, I will use therapy, and it has helped me greatly. You know, somewhere along the way, men got handed this invisible rule book, page one. Don't talk about your feelings, page two. If it hurts, walk it off. Page three, if all else fails, say I'm fine. Bad rule book, Dr. Paul, don't you think?

SPEAKER_04 2:54

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. The problem is that rule book is getting a lot of guys in trouble. They got anxiety, depression, stress, trauma, all things quietly piling up. Brother's still saying I've got it and I'm good. But maybe they aren't good, Commander Drew.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

No, they're not. And it's not just one type of guy, Dr. Paul. Young, old, black, white, Latino, Asian, men from every background are carrying more weight on the inside than anybody can see. It's hard to be a man thinking that you're tough all the time, Paul.

SPEAKER_04 3:27

Yeah, the thing is that struggling doesn't always look like somebody crying in a corner. It can look like just not sleeping or sleeping all day, which gives a worse problem. Maybe it looks like snapping at people over nothing, small stuff, or just disappearing from friends, hobbies, and things you used to do, things you used to love.

SPEAKER_03 3:49

And it might be the guy who used to hoop every weekend, and now he never shows up, or the co-worker who's always too tired. How about the dad who's physically there, but mentally he's checked out all the time, Paul?

SPEAKER_04 4:03

Yeah, if you got those kinds of changes where you got trouble concentrating, you're losing interest in stuff you used to like, you're constantly pissed off, you're irritable, those are warning signs that uh are going off in the cockpit, Commander Drew. It's not a character flaw, it's a warning sign.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

That's very true. And now when people hear therapy, a lot of men are picturing lying on a couch while somebody else asks, How does that make you feel every five seconds? Hard pass, right? That's not how it is, Paul, is it?

SPEAKER_04 4:33

Yeah, you know, real therapy is something that's a lot simpler. It's a safe place to talk, to be honest. And you don't have to pretend that you're okay when you're really not. Get no cape, get no magic wand, there's no judge's robe, just a trained human being trying to help you unpack that load that you're carrying, Commander to And I didn't realize this, but most guys don't want someone to fix them.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

They want to be heard, they want tools, they want to stop feeling like they're one bad day away from losing it. That's exactly where therapy shines. It gives you a playbook instead of leaving you to guess all the time how you're feeling. Right.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

Yeah, one of the big myths is that therapy means someone tells you exactly what to do. But in reality, you're the one that's got to do the work. Therapist is more like uh trainer in the gym, helping you do the not helping you do the lift, but guiding you on the proper form.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

That's a great analogy, Dr. Paul. And that's exactly the truth. They help you figure out what you're feeling, why you react the way you do, and how to respond differently the next time. They're not the hero of your story. You are. They're just handing you better tools for your toolbox so you can work a lot better.

SPEAKER_04 5:49

Yeah. And when men start talking, you know, really talking, it's like releasing pressure from uh from a bowel. You know, that you got a tight chest, maybe you're constantly angry, feeling numb. That starts to loosen up when you start carrying the load all by yourself.

SPEAKER_03 6:07

And let's be clear, needing help doesn't mean you're broken. It means you're human. If so many men deal with depression or anxiety, you are absolutely not alone in this. This is a place where you're not to be judged, where people are just listening to you. Huh, Paul?

SPEAKER_04 6:25

Yeah, you know, a lot of men were never shown to talk about emotions. Well, we sure didn't do that. You know, it's not a personality flaw, that's just a missing skill. But it's a skill you can learn. Therapy just speeds up that learning curve, Commander Drew.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Yeah, and it's not just about fixing pain, it's about becoming a better communicator, a better partner, a better father, a better friend. Strong isn't never struggling. Strong is saying I'm struggling and I'm getting help. And then the 11 facts in life, it actually says power is asking for help and using it, Paul.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

So if you notice those signs yourself, you're kind of pulling away, you feel numb, don't enjoy anything, or you got a constant heaviness all around you, might be time to talk to somebody. Maybe a doctor, counselor, or a therapist. To start the conversation.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

And if you notice it in another man, please don't lecture him. Check in. Ask how he's really doing. Listen more than you talk. Sometimes knowing one person actually cares is the crack that will actually let that light in. You're not stuck like this. Help does exist. Healing is possible, and reaching out isn't a failure. It's actually a power move. You don't have to fly this mission solo. There are wingmen out there ready to help you land safely. How about some more good news, Dr. Paul?

SPEAKER_04 7:51

Yeah, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

All right. Here's something that'll blow your mind. Believe it or not, in one single year, scientists just discovered 1,121 new marine species. That's not over decades. That's just one year. And parts of the ocean that we've barely ever touched, Paul.

SPEAKER_04 8:11

Yeah, and these aren't just tiny, forgettable organisms. We're talking about creatures like the ghost shark. Never heard of a ghost shark. That's a deep sea animal that's been around for nearly 400 million years. That's older than the dinosaurs, and still largely a mystery.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Wow. There's also a worm that lives inside what scientists are calling a glass castle. It's basically a crystal-like spun structure deep, deep in the ocean. It's like discovering an alien city right here on Earth, Paul.

SPEAKER_04 8:42

Yeah. Here's a bigger picture. We estimate there are about 8.7 million species on the planet. We've only identified about 1.2 million so far.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

Wow. That's only about 86% of life on Earth. And that means it's still undiscovered. And in the ocean, that number actually jumps to around 90%, Paul.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

Yeah, that's why missions like Ocean Census matter. They're speeding up the discovery, because right now it can take over 13 years just to officially document a new species. And some may disappear before we even know they exist, Commander Drew.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Wow. But the good news is we're getting better, faster, and more connected globally. Scientists across 80 plus countries are teaming up now, sharing data in real time and uncovering life at a pace we've never seen before.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

So while we're spending billions searching for life on other planets, we're still uncovering more ecosystems right here in our own oceans on Earth.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

And that's the part I love. We're not done exploring, not even close. There's still mystery, still discovery, and still a chance for all of us to protect something incredible right here at home. This is our jet jolt, and we love that jet jolt because we are badass Navy jet pilots. And if you ever want to see us and you're listening to us on Apple Podcasts, just turn on YouTube. We have a bunch of shows and you can get to see how Dr. Paul and Doc Gable really looks. So here's the jet jolt. Here's a wild thought. It's estimated that around 80% of the world's population has never flown in an airplane, not even once. Think about that. For a lot of people, the idea of looking down at the clouds from above is just science fiction, not Tuesday travel, Paul.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

Yeah, and for many of us, flying has become normal. Now we might complain about legroom or peanuts while we're quietly crossing the oceans in just half a day. No, the truth is every flight is a front row seat to how big and connected the world really is, Commander.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

And that's why we tell people, if you can, don't stay locked in your zip code forever. Travel stretches your mind. You hear new languages, you taste new food, you meet new people who see life differently than you do. You realize the news is tiny and the world is really huge.

SPEAKER_04 11:20

You don't have to start with a a ticket to fly around the world. Maybe it's just your first short flight, your first trip to another state or crossing the border for the first time. Every time you travel, your world gets a little bit bigger. And your fears probably get a lot smaller.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Alright, so here's your wingman challenge. If you've never flown, start dreaming. If you have flown, start planning. Don't let your whole life happen in one little zip clue. The planet is way too big, and your story is way too important to stay stuck in one spot. Alright, everybody, thank you so much for listening and watching us. The Wingman Show on Apple Podcast, on YouTube, TV, on TikTok, on Instagram. We appreciate all of your letters. We appreciate all your subscriptions. Thank you so much for really looking after us. And we have a website, and that website is wingmanshow.com. That's w-n-g-m-e-n-s-h-o-w dot com. And on that website we also have a newsletter. And this week is how to find help with therapy, just like we were talking about. And we have a frequent flow line. But check out those badass jets we got behind us. Now, behind Dr. Paul, he has a beautiful A7, and that's the plane he used to fly. And he is tanking some Tomcats. And uh, Paul, you used to do that, didn't you?

SPEAKER_04 12:50

Yeah, I did. That's that's not a picture of me. Those are different squadrons, but did that a lot. Uh I guess that was the uh the old technology. I think the F-18s do it too. Everybody can uh give and receive gas.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

They sure do. We used to have to do a lot of last night tanking, and that was something else to be up there with the only gas in the sky. But also check out those jets behind me. I have Doc Gable and Ebony, two badass black Navy jet pilots flying around the sky in AI. And once again, like I told you, if you want to see how we look like all of you Apple Podcast listeners, check us out on YouTube. We'd really like that. Now, everybody out there realize Ace is not a human being. He's just an AI chat box, and he's our wingman. He's not 100% correct all the time, but I will tell you this: he's an incredible tool that everyone could really use. All right, wingman, it's time for the Frequent Flow line. We got a great letter all the way from across the pond from Brian in Manchester, England. And he writes, Dear Wingman show, I watch you every week with my kids. You two are the kind of Americans I want my children to see. Not the crazy stuff we see on the news, but real Americans doing real things. When did you decide to join the Navy and become airline pilots? Why don't you take that, Paul? Sure.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Well, Brian, first of all, thanks, uh thanks a lot. That means a lot to us. The fact that you sit down with your children and watch us together. Right there, you're already being a great wingman for your family. Now, as for the Navy, my decision started with one simple idea. I wanted to do something bigger than myself. I saw the Navy as a way to serve, see the world, and push my limits. As far as flying, that was the ultimate challenge and the ultimate thrill. And that thought came to me when I was about four and a half years old, and it never died. How about you, Commander Drew?

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Well, for me, Brian, it's a whole different story. I actually was looking for a job. I figured out when I was about 25, 26 years old that maybe being an airline pilot was a good way to go. I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up, so I figured I'd be an airline pilot. And the first place to I went to was the Air Force, obviously, Air Force Airplanes. They loved me. I was black, I was qualified, I was strong, they loved everything about me, except they said that my class started in 16 weeks. And I went there for a job. Somebody there actually said, Drew, go down to the Navy. And I said, I don't want to be on boats. They said, no, Navy has the best pilots in the world. So I went down to the Navy. And obviously, the Navy has so little black pilots that I was in the United States Navy in 11 days. And for me, that was the start of something real big. It changed my life, Dr. Paul. How about you?

SPEAKER_04 15:56

Well, you said a job. I remember when the Navy uh ads was popular, was it's not a job, it's an adventure. And that's been true. But now for the airline pilot part, for me, that that came later, after years of flying in the Navy. It was kind of a natural transition. I had the skills, I had the hours, I loved flying. And uh I didn't mind moving stuff, people, or cargo from one part of the world to the other. So you're not just flying metal, you're flying stories, reunions, second chances, and helping businesses run around the world, actually. How about you, Commander Drew?

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Well, actually, I wanted to be a Delta pilot because I heard they made the most money and they had the best jobs. I did not get hired by Delta. And one of the reasons that a long time ago there weren't many black pilots at Delta is that they had a psychologist and he took a Southern captain's profile. And if you didn't fit that profile, you didn't get hired. And one of the things that uh was not in that profile, my parents were divorced. And because they were divorced, I didn't get hired, and I was down and out. But guess what? I actually got hired by the greatest airline in the world, and that's FedEx. We get paid more, we have better retirement, we have better everything, and the best thing is we don't have any people. And I'll tell you something else, Brian. Every time I see that airline uniform in the mirror, I still see myself who looked up at the sky one day and dreamed of being an airline pilot. The Navy taught us how to handle pressure, how to be part of a team, and how to be responsible for lives. The airlines just let us keep using all of that just in a different mission and making some more money, huh, Paul?

SPEAKER_04 17:38

Yeah. You know, and just, you know, hearing him say that we're a good representation of the United States. Well, that's that's really quite humbling. Thank you very much for that. America is a very complicated place, like every country, you know, but there are a lot of good people over here just trying to work hard to do good things and help others, just like you're doing with your kids in Manchester, England.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

And Brian, to you and your children, thank you so much for watching. Thanks for trusting us, and thanks for reminding us that the world's a lot smaller and a lot friendlier than the headlines make it seem. See, here's the upbeat truth. You don't have to be a Navy pilot or an airline captain to live a wingman life. You just have to show up for others, lead with character, and keep looking up instead of giving up. For the US to the UK, we're honored to fly that mission with.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

It's a wingman PSA. In the sky, your partner has your back. Now, let's get to it.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Climbing in now, System Screen.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

And now, for a Wingman ESA, under the 11 facts in life, under fact number six, anger really means fear. Strike the number one cause of death when mad, sit down, shut up, and do nothing for 24 hours. Anger really means fear. You're scared of not getting what you want or losing something you have. What do you think about that anger, Paul? Because I'll tell you, 20 seconds of anger can get you 20 years in the state penitentiary.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

Yeah, that's not good. 20, any penitentiary. Uh, never been jailed, don't want to be jailed. I visited people in jail. It's not a place to go. Yeah, and one thing people have to do, and I and I see a lack of that in uh generations coming up now, and older people, not just teenagers, you've got to master your emotions. Especially taught male and female. You gotta master your emotions. You can't always act like spoiled five-year-olds.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

That's true, and you know, on the Unleavened Facts in Life, it says that. Take responsibility for your actions and control your emotions. All right, Wingman family, it's now time for the gouge. Now remember, naval aviation, the gouge is some real shit. It's not polished-up briefing, it's stuff you really need to know, but sometimes nobody tells you. So we're gonna give Ace a big gouge question. We're gonna go right up to Ace with this big one. Hey, what's the gouge on success that nobody tells young people today?

SPEAKER_00 20:20

All right, here's the gouge. Success is way more about sticking it out than being the smartest in the room. Consistency, bouncing back after face plants, and being okay with boring daily efforts, that's the secret sauce. No one tells you that showing up when it's not flashy is what actually makes you unstoppable.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

Thank you very much, Ace. That's great. You have anything to add to that, Dr. P?

SPEAKER_04 20:41

Success, you know, success is, I guess it's relative. It comes from having goals and dreams and acting on them. Not just dreaming them, but actually acting on them. So it's probably no success without some kind of action.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

Well, actually, success to me is real simple. It's waking up every day, doing something you love and doing it well. Waking up every day is successful if you're doing something you love and you do it well. All right, everybody, it's now time for our wingman story, and you know we love wingman stories because we always like to talk about people who help others. That's what the Wingman Show is all about, showing people that others are helping all the time. So, Wingman, today's story isn't about jets or carriers. It's about a classroom, talkboard, and a kid who decides to use his strength for somebody else. One kid is a star in school and on the field, the other is quietly trying not to be noticed at all.

SPEAKER_04 21:51

First, let's meet Charlie O. He's black, he's a big time athlete for his age, he's tall, he's fast, he's a kid. Everybody wants to be on their team. But here's a twist. He's also really good at math and reading. At home, his family's doing okay. They have steady jobs, stable income, stable household. Lots of talk about grades, goals, characters, types of things we talk about on this uh show, Commander Drew.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Yes, and then there's Tyler. You see, Tyler's white. He lives with his mom, and money is tight. His dad left, and the hole he left behind feels bigger than the house. Tyler's smart, but school feels like a daily exam in what's wrong with me, especially when it comes to math and reading. And yeah, such kids have laughed at him when he gets answers wrong. It's not good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

And every day Charlie O finishes his work early. Every day Tyler stares at his worksheet like it's written in code. The teacher tries out, but one adult and a room full of kids only stretches so far. Tyler hears the whispers, the little jokes about him being kind of slow. Even when they're quiet, they echo in his head.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

So what happens is Tyler starts doing what a lot of kids do. He acts like he doesn't really care anymore. He cracks jokes at first so nobody sees how much it really hurts. He turns in work half done, shrugs, and pretends it's no big deal. Inside, though, he's convinced everybody's right about him.

SPEAKER_04 23:26

But one day, the teacher announces partner practice. So the desks scrape together, and the kids pair up fast. But Tyler keeps his head down, kind of hoping to disappear. But Charlie O looks around, he sees Tyler sitting alone, and he can see a couple of kids smirking, wanting to see who gets stuck with him.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

And here comes the wingman moment. Charlie O stands up, walks right past that cool crowd, and drops his notebook on Tyler's desk. Yo, you want to team up? He says, just like it's the obvious choice. One kid in the back snickers, why are you picking him? And Charlie O turns and says, Because my partner, you got a problem with that? The room gets quiet real fast. Real quiet.

SPEAKER_04 24:15

Yeah. So at first Tyler mumbles, I'm just bad at this. But Charlie O shakes his head. He said, Nah, man. Nobody's just bad. We'll break it down. He starts showing Tyler how he thinks through problems. Takes small steps, little tricks here and there, drawing pictures. Slowly, Tyler starts getting the answers right, all on his own.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Wow, and Charlie O doesn't make a show out of it. No bragging. No, I'm saving this guy. When someone cracks a joke, Charlie O cuts them off quick. He's doing the work. Chill out. He's not just helping Tyler with math, he's guarding his dignity. That's advanced wingman tactics there.

SPEAKER_04 24:59

Yeah, and over time things start to change. Tyler starts raising his hand sometimes. When the teacher asks for volunteers to read, he doesn't sink all the way down his chair. At home, his mom notices he's not as defeated when he opens his backpack. The numbers on his paper are higher, but the weight on his shoulders is getting lighter.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

And Charlie O learns something too. You see, being the star athlete is cool. Being the smart kid is cool, but being the one who stands up for someone who shares his strength, that's a different level of greatness. That's leadership. That's really being a wingman. So here's the good news. There's a Charlie O and a Tyler in every school, every job, and every neighborhood. Some days you're the one who needs the backup. Some days you're the one who can give it. When you use your voice, your talent, and your courage to protect and lift someone else, you're flying the wingman mission and you don't need a jet to do it. Thank you once again, everybody out there, for watching us and listening to us. Anything that you think is important and anything that you think is beautiful, and most importantly, whatever makes you happy, may you have that today and forever. I pray for peace.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

I pray for peace too, Commander Drew. And again, it's good being with you. Congratulations once again at becoming an official member of Royalty. I guess you own land and property around the world now. Uh we appreciate all those who listen, like, and share our message. If you're watching on YouTube especially, we'd appreciate a like and become a subscriber. Most of you are not subscribed, become a subscriber on YouTube. If you're listening to us on Apple Podcasts, you will soon be able to watch us on video two. That's coming to the Apple Podcast listeners. It's still in the works. We hope to hope to hope to have that worked out, but you'll be able to see us or hear us. You'll have the choice if you're listening on Apple Podcasts. In any case, we look forward to speaking to you again real soon.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

And until that Apple Podcast does come out, you can always watch us on YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Behold, Lord Commander Drew.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

My lady Katrina Brown, you are radiant. Thank you once again, Dr. Paul Thompson, my friend. Thank you for your love, your time. And that's something that we won't ever get back. I want to thank all the listeners too. Thank you so much for doing the show, Dr. Paul. We're jamming.

SPEAKER_04 27:32

Well, thank you, Mr. Drew, for inviting me on. Always good to talk to you. And ladies and gentlemen, please remember to like, share, and subscribe to this podcast, rank the podcast. If you're looking at YouTube, uh, they say smash the like button. Don't smash it, just press it gently and refer to use as a link to all your friends. You can also look at us on our website, wingminshow.com, w-in-g-m-en-show, sh o w dot com, all together, wingminshow.com. And we hope to see you in the future. Thanks again, Mr. Drew.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Oh, you're welcome. And we're still floating like butterflies and stinging like bees. Rumble, you badass jet pilots, rumble. May there be peace on earth and goodwill towards all men and women.