Wingmen Show
Two Dope Boys in a Navy jet. The Wingmen Show is a weekly podcast about challenges and opportunities in everyday life. Your hosts are two guys born in Harlem, New York previously unknown to each other. Separately, they became Navy pilots flying high performance jet aircraft on and off of aircraft carriers patrolling the world’s oceans. Their paths did not cross formally until they ended up flying for the same airline after their active-duty military service had ended. They have a wide range of experiences spanning the worlds of basketball and boxing. Drew’s father is Drew Bundini Brown, Muhammad Ali’s Wingman and coined the iconic phrase “Float Like A Butterfly Sting, Like A Bee". Martial Arts and Show Business are also areas of mutual interest. Drew has been featured nationally on television programs such as the Donahue Show and the Today Show. He has also appeared in hundreds of newspapers and magazines. Both are published authors as well as former Navy jet pilots and Commercial Airline Pilots; they retired after having flown the Boeing 777 airliner. The cultural mix of religions, immigrant parents and grandparents from Europe and the Caribbean gives them an uncommon perspective on racial matters. Melding the cultures of New York City, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, Memphis, the Caribbean and Atlanta has helped shape their worldview when combined with the life they have seen and experienced having flown extensively to countries throughout the world.They are wingmen to each other, providing advice, guidance and constructive criticism when needed. The goal of the show is to inspire and entertain those unafraid to expand their minds and perhaps learn something new in the hope that the listeners can become wingmen to others. Each one, teach one.
Wingmen Show
Thirty Seconds to Calm: The Wingmen Way
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What if thirty seconds of kindness could cut discipline problems in half? In Episode 258, Drew and Paul open with a leadership lesson straight out of an Atlanta middle school, where Principal Kimberly Sewell rebuilt her entire instructional framework around one rule: connection before content. Teachers now spend the first thirty seconds of every class simply connecting with students—favorite pizza toppings, what makes them happy—before a single lesson begins. The results speak for themselves: discipline referrals down roughly fifty percent, better attendance, and kids choosing conversations over fights in a school of nearly 900 students. Paul frames it the way only a carrier pilot can: it’s a pre-flight brief for the heart. Aviate, navigate, and communicate become connect, then teach; then stabilize the plane before you start pushing buttons.
Welcome to the Wingman Show, where we're floating like butterflies and stinging like bees. Rumble, you two badass jet pilots rumble. Welcome to the Wingman Show. My name is Commander Drew Brown. My wingman, my friend, the guy who always watches my 6 o'clock, my main man, Dr. Paul Thompson. How are you, Brother Paul?
SPEAKER_05Well, Commander Drew, I'm doing very, very well. It's good to see you today. Sometimes I'm confused about one thing. Should I call you Commander Drew, Lord Drew, or Lord Commander Drew, or all the above?
SPEAKER_03Lord Commander Drew would be just fine. Okay. All right. You know, we always start off with a quote of the day. And this quote is by Steph Curry. Now, he's an amazing basketball player, actually, best shooter ever. And what I believe Steph Curry has done, he's changed basketball. Because a long time ago, you just had to be tall. Everybody had to be tall to play basketball. Well, Steph Curry proved that differently because now all you have to do is be able to shoot. If you can put that ball in the basket, it doesn't matter what size you are. So here's his quote: Be the best version of yourself in anything that you do. You don't have to live anybody else's story. One more time. Be the best version of yourself in anything you do. You don't have to live anybody else's story. What do you think about that, Doc?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I mean, that's that's that's good of him. It's uh kind of really remarkable because everybody's tried to be him in some ways. But that's not going to be attainable to the average person, even the above-average person. So he's basically giving you permission to be yourself.
SPEAKER_03Very good, Dr. Paul. All right, the title of our show today is 30 Seconds to Calm, the Wingman Way. Well, Dr. Paul, Atlanta just taught the whole country a leadership lesson. A middle school cut discipline referrals by 50% with one simple rule. They say connection before content. Every class, every day. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_05Well, that's beautiful, Commander Drew, Lord Commander Drew. In aviation, we say aviate, navigate, communicate. In the classroom, they're saying connect, then teach. The same idea. You stabilize the plane before you start pushing a lot of buttons.
SPEAKER_03And you know, the principal, Kimberly Sewell, she changed the whole instructional framework. You see, now teachers spend the first 30 seconds asking something simple, like what's your favorite pizza topping? What makes you happy? What's your favorite music? Things like that, Doc.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, well, Commander Drew, that sounds like a pre-flight brief for the heart. You're not just taking attendance. You're checking the emotional fuel levels. Is this kid on empty or ready for takeoff?
SPEAKER_03And you know, it's not just the classroom. Now the staff are told greet students, build a positive interaction before correcting behavior. That's like talking to your co-pilot before yelling at the autopilot.
SPEAKER_05Exactly right. If the first time you speak to someone is to bark a correction, you're already you're already flying in turbulence. A little kindness is like smooth air. You can make a course correction without the passengers in the back just screaming the heads off.
SPEAKER_03That's true. Kindness is the key. You know, the results are discipline referrals are down about 50%. There's better attendance, and kids are choosing conversation over fights. This is a serious change in attitude and altitude for a school of almost 900 students. Well, that's great, Commander.
SPEAKER_05Because when kids feel seen, they don't feel they need to shout with the fists. You know, the connection lowers the aggression throttle. You replace, I have to defend myself with, I'm safe enough to talk us out.
SPEAKER_03Well, Doc, this kindness designation they are, that's like getting a safety award for culture. They're proving discipline doesn't always need more rules. It really needs just some more relationships.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And that's the wingman principle to everybody out there. As pilots, we trust our wingman before we hit bad weather. Families and schools should be doing the same thing. Building trust before crisis starts, having connection just before running into just a whole lot of content.
SPEAKER_03And Dr. Paul, if a middle school in Atlanta can cut discipline in half with 30 seconds of kindness, it looks like we can all do something at home, at work, wherever. Start with connections, then go to content. Start with being kind first, and then tell somebody what you need to tell them. All right, people out there, you know we love good news because there is good news out there. There's not just bad news, and actually, good will overcome evil. So here's some good news. You know we love this. Paul, new research from the University College of London says your personality can predict which kind of workout you actually enjoy and how much stress you lose when you do it, Dr. Paul.
SPEAKER_05Well, it's about time, Commander Drew. Some people treat the gym like an aircraft carrier deck, maybe full afterburner, music blasting. Others want a quiet hanger where they can stretch, breathe, nobody's yelling, no pain, no gain.
SPEAKER_03Well, you know, they always said that, and that's totally not true. You see, the study used the big five traits extroversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness, neuroticism, and openness. Basically the pre-flight checklist for your brain, Dr. Paul.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, Commander Drew, they found that extroverts love the high intensity exercise. Those use Zumba, workouts, boot camp, and the high intensity interval training, those junkies, you know, the high energy, the social types, they are happiest when there's sweating and formation for the whole squad.
SPEAKER_03And on the other end, the more neurotic folks, more anxious, more self-doubters, they preferred lighter exercise and short bursts. They like training at home more than in a lab with all those people watching them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and here's the beautiful part those neurotic participants got the biggest drop in stress after the program. When your mind flies in rough weather, even simple short workouts like switching on better instruments in the cockpit community.
SPEAKER_03Well, conscientious people, the organized, responsible types, showed up fitter at baseline. Not because every workout was fun, but because they stick to the mission, health over hype. And we always say that, Dr. Paul.
SPEAKER_05We sure do. So if that's you out there, pick workouts like we pick flight plans based on the destination, weather, stuff going on. Your strength, flexibility, endurance. That's the objective. Set the objective and choose a routine that gets you there. Whether or not it's something that's going to look pretty on Instagram.
SPEAKER_03And openness, the curious adventure trait. Don't lock into one intensity, but previous work shows they're more willing to try new experiences. Those are your trail hikers, your climbers, and the let's test this weird class people. I've seen a lot of them, Dr. Paul.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, they treat the gym like new airspace. Today it's boxing. Tomorrow it's Pilates. Maybe rock climbing or even pole dancing. As long as it's a knee maneuver, they're happy to take off.
SPEAKER_03Well, then what's the bottom line, Doc?
SPEAKER_05Well, the bottom line is this, Commander, stop forcing yourself into someone else's workout cockpit. Match your routine with your personality. So you actually enjoy doing it, actually enjoy flying it. And you'll stick with it long enough to see the results.
SPEAKER_03That's true. Consistency is the word. You see, you're the pilot of your own body. Whether you're a high octane extrovert or a cautious, anxious, solo flyer, build a flight plan that keeps you moving.
SPEAKER_05Well, and remember, the researcher's message is clear. Just do something you enjoy. And whatever you choose, just keep moving.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's your favorite words, Doc. Keep moving. So this is the Wingman Show, helping you fly smarter, train stronger, and land every workout with a smile on your face. Here's some more good news, Dr. Paul. Sweden is set to ban mobile phones in schools. Paul, Sweden just grounded every kid's cell phone in school. No more mobile devices taxing around in those classrooms.
SPEAKER_05Well, Lord Commander Drew, that's like clearing the wrong way of loose luggage. You can't launch learning when TikTok is doing touch and goes on every student's desk.
SPEAKER_03And guess what, Doc? They're going back to books. The government says reading and writing scores have dropped, especially with that younger crew.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that makes sense. I see it all the time. Where your thumb gets more of a workout scrolling than your brain does thinking. You're not trained for a long-haul flight. You're trained for a short meme, a short hop. You need something more in-depth.
SPEAKER_03Well, in Sweden's port city of Malmo, they already parked the phones in a mobile hotel before class. I love that. Phones checked in, minds cleared for takeoff, Dr. Paul.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly. In the cockpit, we don't say, hey, let's bring a little Instagram to altitude. Distraction kills situational awareness. Whether you're 30,000 feet or in 10th grade history class, Commander Dew.
SPEAKER_03You know, one cognitive scientist said writing with your hands and using physical materials actually lights up the brain more and it engages your motor sensory systems, Dr. Paul.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's absolutely true, Commander Dew. Uh, if you can't write clearly with a pencil, you probably can't brief clearly in the ready world. We forget that manual skills build mental scruffs. It's like flying stick and rudder before you uh just turn on an autopilot.
SPEAKER_03Of course. That's so good. Some folks worry we're pulling the plug on digital skills, though. But 90% of future jobs will use tech. They don't want kids graduating thinking a cloud is just bad weather on final.
SPEAKER_05The answer isn't screens or books. It's screens and books at the right time. You don't just throw the aviotics out and you don't just let them fly the plane where you're learning basic airmature. So what's the wingman message here, Doc? Well, simple. At home and in school, treat phones like jet fuel. They're powerful but dangerous and deletes everywhere. So create screen free zones, like we create sterile cockpit time.
SPEAKER_03You know, you want your kids to be pilots of their own minds, not passengers on someone else's algorithm. Sweden banning phones in schools? Wow, maybe we should start by banning them from our own dinner tables. How about that?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Commander, do remember, if your kid can look up from the phone long enough to lie in the book on their lap, that's already a positive change in flight time.
SPEAKER_03Well, this is the Wingman show where we keep you flying high, reading real pages and landing safely with your phone in airplane mode. Let's give them some more good news there, Dr. Paul. In Flint, Michigan, they tried something bold, and the babies are showing us it really works.
SPEAKER_05Oh, so you're talking about those RX kids giving moms cash with no strengths attached during pregnancy in the baby's first year. A $1,500 check halfway through pregnancy, then $500 a month for that first year in life, Commander.
SPEAKER_03Wow, and here's the good news. After the program started in 2024, premature births went down. Low birth weight babies went down, and fewer newborns needed intensive care. And you know what else? More moms got prenatal care. And actually, fewer smoked while they were pregnant, Dr. Paul.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, the mom said because of these dollars, I can take a day off of work and pay for gas to get to my prenatal appointment. So that's real life. When you're earning under $10,000 a year, a $1,500 check is a serious stress reliever commander.
SPEAKER_03It sure is. You know, one mom in the program, her name was Candy. She used the money after her husband got hurt on the job, and then complications led to an emergency C-section, and she hired a doula to help her at home. That support doesn't just change a day, Dr. Paul. It changes whole recoveries.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, what's great is the freedom. She said I could use it for a car payment or daycare. I didn't have to use it strictly for diapers and form law. So we entrust families, you know, they know what they need most.
SPEAKER_03They sure do. So here's your wingman lens on this. Sometimes the best prescription isn't more rules, it's more room, room for moms to breathe, get care, and reduce stress so their babies can come into the world a lot stronger.
SPEAKER_05So this is the good news out of Flint. Less prematurity, less tiny, struggling babies, and more support for families at the most critical moment of life.
SPEAKER_03Dr. Paul, we talk a lot about being a wingman. This program did it with dollars. When you lift up a mom, you lift up a child, a family, and a whole community. We will be right back. And you know, Dr. Paul and I are two badass Navy jet pilots. And if you'd like to see what we look like, why don't you join us on YouTube? Even if you're listening to Apple Podcasts, you can now watch us on YouTube. Dr. Paul, during the Cold War, the F-111 Audvar could change the shape of their wings in flight, sweeping them back for high speed, low-level, nose-to-the-earth missions, then swinging them forward for slower, more stable flight and landing. That's a combat aircraft literally changing its aerodynamics mid-mission to match the job. So, Dr. Paul, today's jet job, imagine you're flying a fighter bomber that can change its wings in midair, wide and straight for takeoff and landing, swept back for high speed attack runs, hugging that terrain. That's the swing wing F-111, and that's called the oddbok, Dr. Paul.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, Commander, that's uh kind of wild. Most planes fit one personality and keep it. But the F-111 said, I'll beat two airplanes in one. They got long wings for lift and stability, uh sweeping back like a knife blade when it's time to blow past the speed of sound.
SPEAKER_03Well, that swing wing wasn't just for looks. Flying low at high speed over rough terrain, that's brutal turbulence. Hills, radar, the whole mess. Sweat wings gave the jet less drag and more stability. Like tucking your elbows in when you sprint, Dr. P.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, right, Commander Duke. At a low speed, you don't want a sleek and skinny thing. You want big lifting services. It's like having retractable training wheels. When you're heavy and slow, you put them out. When it's time to race, you pull them back in.
SPEAKER_03Well, what I love is the philosophy behind it. The airplane doesn't force one speed or one style on every mission, it adapts. Leaders should be like that. Know when to extend your wings and slow down and when to sweep them back and move real fast.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly. You know, the people, sometimes you need wide wings, like listening, patience, and giving other folks some lift. Other times you need a swept wing with decisive action, clean decisions, minimum drag, same aircraft, different configuration, depending on the situation, Commander.
SPEAKER_03So today's jet junk is this. Some of the coolest jets ever built literally change shape to stay effective. You don't always need a new airplane. You need a new configuration, Dr. P.
SPEAKER_05And that's our wingman tip. Before you say this situation is impossible, ask yourself, am I trying to fly it with the wrong wing setting? Maybe you need to adjust your approach, not just the throttle.
SPEAKER_03This is the Wingman Show, helping you fly smart, change shape when you need to, and stay mission ready in every sky. I'd like to thank everybody out there for your support, for your letters. We truly do appreciate it. And if you look behind us, we got some badass jets behind us. Dr. Paul actually has an F-18 on a cat shot at night. You want to tell us a little bit about that?
SPEAKER_05Interesting thing about the cat shot, you know, the F-18 is the uh Navy's first fly-by-wire airplane. Well, they go off the cat, they keep their hands off the controls. You're not supposed to touch anything. Because if it's a fly-by-wire airplane, it automatically adjusts the proper angle of attack when it comes off. And if you're actually moving the stick, you may actually stall the thing out and give yourself what they call PIO pilot-induced oscillations and uh have a real bad day.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, those F-18s also have the magic carpet ride. That means they push a button and it can land them on an aircraft carrier, and they don't have to do it physically, which I think is crazy. Well, everybody out there, thank you for again for listening to us on Apple Podcasts, watching us on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram. And for everybody out there, we have a website, and that website is wingmanshow.com. That's w-img.com. And on that website, we have a couple of things. First, we have a newsletter, and today's newsletter is tips on using YouTube as a learning tool. I need that a lot because I don't use YouTube enough. And also on that website, we have our frequent flow line, and that's where you guys get to write Dr. Paul Ace and Commander Drew Brown a letter, and if we get to it, we'll read it on the air. We'll be right back. All right, Ace. We got a letter from Andre in Queens, New York. And Queens, you do know that that's Dr. Paul's old neighborhood. So this one hits real close to home.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely. Andre writes to us and Ace that he recently did one of those DNA test kits and got a surprise result. He might have a stepbrother he never knew about.
SPEAKER_03He's 38, had an older brother who passed away, and the idea of having another brother out there really means a lot to him. You can feel the hope in that, but also you can really feel the concern.
SPEAKER_05Right, because he doesn't want to come in like a jet on an emergency landing and wreck the other man's life. He's trying to balance, I love this connection, with I don't want to cause trouble for him or his family.
SPEAKER_03So his question to us, Ace, is what's the most respectful way to reach out and introduce himself, to explore the possibility of a brother without creating a major disruption.
SPEAKER_05And he says the whole household in Queens watches and listens to the Wingman Show every week, and they're proud of us. Andre we're proud of you for wanting to do this with class, patience, and kindness.
SPEAKER_03So let's talk about how to make that first contact gently, like a soft, well planned landing, so you can look for a new brother without blowing up anybody's flight plan. So what do you say about that, Ace? Give us some good stuff.
SPEAKER_01Let me think that through. That's a sensitive one, and a lot of people find themselves there. I'd say start slow and gentle. A short, no pressure message works best. Something like, Hey, I noticed we matched on this DNA site. I'm not here to disrupt anyone's life, just open to connecting if you're interested. That gives them room to decide. And for wingman listeners, the lesson's clear. Lead with empathy. You're stepping into someone else's story, too, so kindness and patience really matter.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much, Ace. That's really, really a good answer. And we'll be right back.
SPEAKER_04This is a wingman PSA, a public service announcement. Listen now or listen later. You have been warned.
SPEAKER_03And now for a wingman PSA. Under the 11 facts in life, under fact number six, under the eight deadly sins, alcohol and drugs, the big lie. Feel good for a minute and be miserable for a lifetime. Addiction is slavery. Once again, alcohol and drugs, the big lie. Feel good for a minute and be miserable for a lifetime. Addiction is slavery. It's a very bad problem. And I'm telling you that if uh crack was around back in the olden days, they would have wrote that eighth deadly sin, Dr. Paul.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah. Uh alcohol and drugs. Not only does it mess up the individual, it messes up families too.
SPEAKER_03Hey, Ace, we need some social media gouge, and you know what the gouge is. Ace, you're our AI wingman, and we want the straight gouge on how social media apps quietly fly our lives. We know these platforms track everything we do, what we click, and how long we scroll, what we like, share, and comment on, and then use all that data to decide what shows up in our feeds first. What we're worried about, though, is how that invisible process can start steering our mood, our decisions, and even what we pay attention to every day without us really noticing. So here's the question: how exactly do social media apps and their algorithms take control of our attention and behavior over time? And what are the most important do's and don'ts for using social media so that we stay pilot in command of our own lives instead of letting the apps run that cockpit? What do you think, Ace?
SPEAKER_01I put it this way: the biggest mistake people make is thinking social media is just showing what's popular. Really, it's learning what keeps you hooked. Every scroll, every pause, every like. It's teaching the algorithm what gets to you. And that loop shapes your mood and focus over time. Pilot to pilot, you have to stay intentional. Follow what lifts you, mute what drains you, set time limits, and fact check before you share. Guard your sleep too. Your attention is your fight path. Don't hand over the controls.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Ace. That's great gouge. All right, everybody. It's Wingman story time, and you know we love Wingman stories because we love to tell about people who take care of others. We really enjoyed that. So tonight's Wingman story is about two Vietnam nurses, sisters in service, who flew together through chaos. Then they lost touch when the war ended and life scattered them to different runways. Decades disappear and they finally reconnect on Facebook.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, these women spent their youth in field hospitals, with helicopters overhead, with wounded soldiers on stretchers, lots of adrenaline and fear mixed with courage. When the war stopped, there was no neat group debrief. They just drifted apart, carrying invisible cargo from that uh turbulent time.
SPEAKER_03And when they reconnect online, one nurse learns the other's in bad shape physically. She's older now, living alone, no family close, her health is failing. The nights are long and quiet, and the house feels just like an empty ward. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Our wingman nurse feels a strong pull to be with her old partner. But she's torn. Will I intrude? Will I embarrass her? Am I barging into her final chapter uninvited? She's wrestling with that fear of crossing a boundary, even though her heart is saying, go.
SPEAKER_03So eventually she does what real wingmen do. She packs a small bag, gathers her courage, and decides to show up in person. No big speech, no drama, just a quiet promise in her mind. If she wants me, I'll be there.
SPEAKER_05So when she knocks on the door and steps inside, the reaction is pure joy. The sick nurse isn't upset, she's relieved. Someone from her old squadron is returned. The room fills of stories, laughter, and those half-remembered details only another Vietnam nurse would understand.
SPEAKER_03She stays, she helps with meals, medication, and all the small things that really matter. But mostly she sits, listens, and holds her friend's hand. And when the last moments come, she's right there, the only person on station, the last wingman on the wing.
SPEAKER_05Her friend leaves this world the way wounded soldiers once left the ward, with a nurse at their side, someone who refuses to let her fly that foul approach all along. And our wingman nurse feels a deep calm. I answered the call. I finished the mission. It's a sadness and peace wrapped all together.
SPEAKER_03That's the heart of being a real wingman. You don't just show up for the celebrations, you show up for the last watch. If there's someone from your past flying the final leg alone, a vet, a nurse, or even a friend, this story is your clearance to knock, to sit, and to stay. Sometimes the bravest mission you'll ever fly is simply being there till wheels down. And for everybody out there who can hear my voice or see my face, whatever you think is important and whatever you think is beautiful, and most importantly, whatever makes you happy, may you have that today and forever. I pray for peace.
SPEAKER_05I pray for peace too, Commander Drew. Once again, it's good seeing you. We appreciate all those who listen, like, and share our message. Consider becoming a subscriber, especially if you're watching on YouTube. Hit the subscribe. That way you'll get a notification when we put out a new episode. Also, if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, you also have the option of uh watching us on video, also on YouTube. You have a choice. In any case, we look forward to talking to you again real soon.
SPEAKER_02Thank you once again, Dr. Paul Thompson, my friend. Thank you for your love, your time. And that's something that we won't ever get back. I want to thank all the listeners too. Thank you so much for doing the show, Dr. Paul, with Jairman.
SPEAKER_04Well, thank you, Mr. Drew, for inviting me on. Always good to talk to you. And, ladies and gentlemen, please remember to like, share, and subscribe to this podcast or any of the podcasts. If you're looking at YouTube, uh, they say smash the like button. Don't smash it, just press it gently and refer to use as a link to all your friends. You can also look at us on our website, wingminshow.com, w-in-g-m-en show, s-h-o-w.com, all together, wingminshow.com. And we hope to see you in the future. Thanks again, Mr. Drew.
SPEAKER_02Oh, you're welcome. And we're still floating like butterflies and stinging like bees. Rumble, you badass jet pilots, rumble. May there be peace on earth and goodwill towards all men and women.